Did you make your own success? Or did you have help?

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Permalink Reply by Marty posch on June 15, 2009 at 10:24am

Ugh..again...semantics with you where I have to PROVE something is 100 percent to "win" the debate. Ugh ugh ugh. If someone influenced me and gave me direction and I applied that, then I am not self made, i had help and influence from others. It doesnt matter what someone else did with that same knowledge.

No semantic arguments this morning please. Its too early on Monday.

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Permalink Reply by Marty posch on June 15, 2009 at 10:40am

I actually just disagree with you, I am not trying to prove you wrong as you are to me, it is just a disagreement. I am of the opinion that if someone gives me advice, or through a mentor helps guide me in the right direction, that i am not self made. Yes, i did something with all that help when someone else would not have and therefore they wouldnt have been as successful as me. I agree with that. I am just am not comfortable saying that "I AM SELF MADE" because I know all the work, information, guidance from others that helped me become the person that I am.

Its really pretty simple. Its just a difference in how we perceive things. You cant possibly think there is a right answer to this do you? There are only opinions, and ours our different. Noone is wrong, noone is right.

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Permalink Reply by Marty posch on June 15, 2009 at 10:48am

Again Chris, I know it fits your argument to say that, but I did not say that. You are again bending words to fit your argument. I simply said

"Saying self made man is an arrogant statement"

To use your style, i therefore did not say that anyone who disagrees with me is arrogant, i said that my opinion was that that STATEMENT is an arrogant one..in MY OPINION. I never said anyting about people that disagree with me.

And as stated before I am not arguing with you, its just simply a difference in opinion.

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Permalink Reply by Marty posch on June 15, 2009 at 10:54am

Ugh..chris..you have exhausted me yet again. It is not even close to fun when you do this.

Permalink Reply by Joe Shoemaker on June 16, 2009 at 10:30am

Chris:

You are displaying in this post - like so many of your postings on this site - the fine art of isolating yourself among a large group of people for whom giving support to others is important.

Good luck with that. I'm sure you'll do fine once you've pushed away everyone in the entire region with your bullying, arrogant, know-it-all rants.

But what the heck do I know. You're always right.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Stuck on June 16, 2009 at 11:02am

Didn't you in a earlier post refer to people who disagree with your point "stirring up the monkeys that might throw poo at you"?

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Permalink Reply by Joe Shoemaker on June 16, 2009 at 12:59pm

With all due respect, Steve, this is not simply about disagreement. It's waaaaaay beyond that.

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Permalink Reply by Erik Deckers on June 16, 2009 at 1:26pm

That's it. No poop for you!

(Sorry, just a little Soup Nazi humor there. Couldn't resist.)

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Permalink Reply by Arifah Aronson on June 15, 2009 at 9:51am

My experience has been a combination of both . . . my current perception drives the direction I'm heading in and many people along the way help me achieve the goal, desire etc.
I do think the desire and drive to push through obstacles is a big part of the successful ones that Gladwell talks about, which I think is tremendously influenced through encouragement from others.
I haven't done it alone and am extremely appreciative of the guidance that has come along.

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Permalink Reply by Julie Schrader on June 15, 2009 at 10:42am

This is a great book! In my personal life, I was definitely given a certain set of opportunities to achieve the success I have in life. I played basketball in college, but would have never been good enough for a scholarship had it not been for my family and my coaches, and having the height didn't hurt either! I didn't just become a good ball player on my own, I was given the chance to play AAU and practice with others better than me and was pushed by my father to practice my free throws, in the snow, after 2 hours of high school practice. I simply would not have been good if not for that and I'm most thankful for it.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Vann on June 15, 2009 at 10:57am

It takes a village.....
I never subscribed to the original meaning of "It takes a village" but I do use that phrase when it comes to business.
Gladwell is right on the money with his assertion that "...It's because of the contributions of lots of different people and lots of different circumstances..." I see this every day in my line of work. As a DRUPAL developer I get to stand on the shoulders of giants. I I develop web sites and web applications but I am not starting at the beginning when I do. Before I had even heard of Drupal as an opensource alternative to the high priced offerings of Micro$soft and IBM, there were literally thousands and thousands of hour logged in by Drupal Community members. This web building tool is controlled by no one but owned by thousands.
What does this have to do with my success?
The American College of Sports Medicine, The Indiana University School of Public & Environmental Affairs, The American Program Speakers Bureau, and other organizations have come straight to me for their DRUPAL solutions. I get to look like a rockstar by simply configuring the modules that others have developed.
Going forward... The Drupal community continues to thrive as a GROUP committed to COLLABORATION not COMPETITION. Venture capitalists [with their Millions] and foundations backed by wealthy benefactors [with their Hundreds of thousands] continue to pour investment capital into the development of the Drupal project and the various activities of the Drupal Community.

I did NOT make my own success. I had serious help from thousands of people. My continued success is just as dependent upon them. It feels good knowing that I am actively contributing back to the project as well as I travel the US giving training and helping people with the learning curve.
- Doug Vann
- www.dougvann.com
- www.twitter.com/dougvann
- http://groups.drupal.org/indiana

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Permalink Reply by Nila Nealy on June 15, 2009 at 10:57am

I've not read Outliers yet though it taunts me from my reading table. I hope to get to it soon.

I'm quite certain that the development of my identity's expression today is the product of my interactions with many people - some directly, some through reading. I'm the one who made the decisions that led me to where I am now. But there's no denying that the influence of others has been great.

From a sports analogy, I think the answer is that success is an individual sport (for most). Even the champion swimmer has coaches, friends, family, fans, and so on helping her to that podium. Yet, she is ultimately relying on her own decisions.

If you strip away the sports analogy, I do think "it takes a village" in creating personal success. To me, it seems that if I'm playing a role, I need other people to play roles, too. Can I be a success without people to observe and support that success? In some ways, the power of comparison, observation and interaction creates the role of successful person. I suppose it's hard to even truly know since only in extremely rare cases do humans live without any interaction or assistance from other humans.

I'm sure I'll think about this more as the day goes on and have even more circular thinking leading me to answer "both."

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