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Should Indiana bag disposable grocery bags?
From Wall St. Journal -
Question: Let's not argue over the question of paper vs. plastic...instead let's consider whether or not we should ban disposable bags altogether in favor of reusable bags. Who's for it? Who's against it? Why? Share your thoughts here
When plastic grocery bags were introduced some 30 years ago, they were touted as light, long-lasting and cheap. They caught on so well that hundreds of billions are dispensed each year, creating a modern menace that often winds up nestled in trees, stuck in sewers and drifting in oceans.
Faced with the growing blight, countries from Ireland to China and cities from San Francisco to Washington, D.C., have moved to ban or tax their use. On Monday, a United Nations official called for outlawing them world-wide. Said Achim Steiner, executive director of the U.N. Environment Program: "There is simply zero justification for manufacturing them anymore, anywhere."
But nothing is simple in the push to protect the planet. There is growing evidence that the production, use and disposal of plastic bags put less burden on natural resources than paper bags. Meanwhile, a knock against plastic bags -- that they can't be conveniently recycled -- is becoming less persuasive as more cities start accepting plastic bags in curbside recycling programs.
That makes the cash-register question -- paper or plastic? -- more vexing than ever.
Increasingly, cities and states seeking greener grocery stores are proposing taxes on all disposable bags. Seattle and Washington, D.C., are considering imposing fees on both paper and plastic bags. Other places, disinclined to saddle their voters with another prohibition or tax, recently have upgraded their curbside recycling programs to accommodate plastic bags.
Question: Let's not argue over the question of paper vs. plastic...instead let's consider whether or not we should ban disposable bags altogether in favor of reusable bags. Who's for it? Who's against it? Why? Share your thoughts here
Question: Let's not argue over the question of paper vs. plastic...instead let's consider whether or not we should ban disposable bags altogether in favor of reusable bags. Who's for it? Who's against it? Why? Share your thoughts here
When plastic grocery bags were introduced some 30 years ago, they were touted as light, long-lasting and cheap. They caught on so well that hundreds of billions are dispensed each year, creating a modern menace that often winds up nestled in trees, stuck in sewers and drifting in oceans.
Faced with the growing blight, countries from Ireland to China and cities from San Francisco to Washington, D.C., have moved to ban or tax their use. On Monday, a United Nations official called for outlawing them world-wide. Said Achim Steiner, executive director of the U.N. Environment Program: "There is simply zero justification for manufacturing them anymore, anywhere."
But nothing is simple in the push to protect the planet. There is growing evidence that the production, use and disposal of plastic bags put less burden on natural resources than paper bags. Meanwhile, a knock against plastic bags -- that they can't be conveniently recycled -- is becoming less persuasive as more cities start accepting plastic bags in curbside recycling programs.
That makes the cash-register question -- paper or plastic? -- more vexing than ever.
Increasingly, cities and states seeking greener grocery stores are proposing taxes on all disposable bags. Seattle and Washington, D.C., are considering imposing fees on both paper and plastic bags. Other places, disinclined to saddle their voters with another prohibition or tax, recently have upgraded their curbside recycling programs to accommodate plastic bags.
Question: Let's not argue over the question of paper vs. plastic...instead let's consider whether or not we should ban disposable bags altogether in favor of reusable bags. Who's for it? Who's against it? Why? Share your thoughts here
Views: 9
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Julie L. Rhodes on -
Indiana generally hasn't been a state to 'ban' things, and sometimes it would be nice if it would ban things now and again. We are 49th out of 50th in the Forbes opinion for nothing. Plastic bags in and of themselves are the demons, of course. They can serve a purpose when it is raining and a paper bag might fall apart, leaving your groceries rolling across the parking lot or drive way. But, as is typically the problem, it is humans lack of responsibility that creates the problem. Wouldn't it be best if we typically brought our own bags to the grocery or other stores? And, only use the plastic bag when we occasionally forget our own bags. Wouldn't it be great if we didn't feel like the bagger at the grocery needed to individually bag each piece of produce or double or triple bag each bag? Wouldn't it be best if we were only buying an item or two that we carried around without trouble throughout the store, we would decline a bag all together? Wouldn't it be best if, when someone was finished with a bag, they didn't discard it in my yard, my sidewalk, my street, my neighborhood, clog my storm sewer grate, make my city look unsightly? That they recycled them along with other bags to make new plastic products, like recycled plastic lumber for decking?
So, I don't believe that the plastic bag is inherently evil. Not any more evil than any other plastic. It can have it's place in our society for safety, convenience, and so on. But, why can't we humans be responsible stewards of all things, including plastic bags.
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Permalink Reply by Billy White Jr. on -
Reusable bags are ok. Biodegradable disposable bags might ok and could be a simple swap that gets us a better but not perfect outcome. If stores gave every store charge card or loyalty card holder 1 or more free reusable bags, think how much money the store would save net. Plus the cost of buying millions of reusable bags would mean they could sell reusable ones for next to nothing and it would benefit those customers without the bag. If that model would work then it costs no one economically except the one time cost to change. Re-work the existing system for a better outcome.
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Permalink Reply by Brigid Manning-Hamilton on -
I am, of course, familiar with the arguments against both paper and plastic. But mine rarely get used just once. I get more paper than plastic, reuse them sometimes, and always use paperbags for wastebaskets in the working areas of the house (studio, study, when doing cleaning projects). They are also the perfect size to collect newspapers for recycling. I also have contraption mounted on the inside the door of my under-sink cabinet that is designed to hang the plastic bags on which provides the perfect receptacle for kitchen waste, so much of which is wet and messy. The cat litter goes out in them also.
So personally, I would miss them if they weren't available -- and I'd be buying some kind of trash bag or another to replace them.
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Permalink Reply by Stephanie Shields on -
I don't know what I'd do with all the dirty diapers in our house if it weren't for plastic grocery bags. In Minnesota, more grocery stores used paper, and they were so sturdy and useful.
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Permalink Reply by Teri Capron on -
Actually this is very similar to the returnable soda/pop bottles from the past (yes, I'm dating myself) as a solution...you charge a small amount to use the reusable bags and when you return them you get a credit or dont' have to pay an additional fee to have your grocery bagged. The concept was that the bottles were returned and then you received a 10¢ credit for the 8 pop bottles you returned otherwise you paid the extra amount in the cost of the grocery. Seems like an easy solution in some respects.
Not to get into the whole paper vs. plastic but I personally have never liked the plastic option because unless you have hooks or some organizational option in your vehicle, they become unruly in your trunk/back of car and spill all over. I prefer when going grocery store for the paper, not only is it a renewable resource (recycled paper as opposed to something made from oil) but can be recycled again with other paper recycling options.
I think if you made it something affordable for all, it could be doable and as a bonus help the environment with less waste.
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Permalink Reply by Lindsay Manfredi on -
What a great discussion starter! I have personally been using paper for years now, believing without evidence, on my own accord, that paper was better for our environment than plastic. Mainly because I too had heard that plastic bags were not recyclable at my local drop off. Plus, paper bags are the perfect collector for what I recycle. That being said, it's interesting that it may be the other way around.
I would not at all be opposed to bringing my own reusable bags to shop. Especially if they're cool. hmmmm....bigger idea here, someone in Indy needs to make and sell some phat, stylish, reusable bags and sell them at affordable costs. I have too much on my plate or maybe I would, but I would definitely support the person who could do it!! They could call it, "Indy Rebags!" Whatever...
Anyway, anything within reason that I can help contribute to, to preserve our environment is worth doing. Sure, there is convenience in having it all there. People would hate being taxed over something that was not before taxed, many would jack over the fact that they would have to carry and be responsible for them, lots would complain, the normal folks that are victims would come out of the closet (you have to love progressive thinking, right?). At the end of the day, if someone asked me to use reusable bags because it would help make a difference in 2, 10, 20 years, I'm IN. No questions asked.
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Permalink Reply by Julie L. Rhodes on
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There are lots of very cool shopping bags available. Check out Silver in the City...they have loads of very cool bags. Also, the most recent shopping bags at Whole Foods and Trader Joes are pretty darn cool and a lot more durable than previous styles of bags.
I have read all the evidence for paper vs. plastic, and I agree that paper is best, if for no other reason, wood fiber in tree farms is a renewable resource and full biodegradable -- petroleum based products are not either. While the water and energy use for either is really about the same, I base my decision on just trying to move away from our petroleum based society.
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Permalink Reply by Victoria Finch on
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I try not to use paper or plastic. l use the green bags. Aldi's has a huge one for $1.99. In Europe, shoppers have been taking their "totes" shopping with them for decades. I say avoid using plastic or paper if you can. I do not know if we should ban the use or plastic bags or charge a fee to use them. If a fee gets charged, where does the revenue go? How would it be used?
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Boller on -
i believe that reusable is the way to go. it took me a little while to warm to the idea cause it's a pain, but once you get in the habit it's like anything else.
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Permalink Reply by Jules Bush on -
I agree with Jeff! I always keep two large ALDI reuseable green bags in my car (they are quite large). It's like anything different and new...you have to develop a good habit - just like you have to end a bad habit (i.e. using plastic bags when you can use recycled bags).
I'm also a big advocate for getting credit for recycling plastic and paper bags. I don't think taxing or charging people will be fair, especially for the poor, underemployed, elderly, etc. - but, I do think retailers can offer green bags at a discount and as a loss leader to encourage people using them.
What if you could use recycled bags - no matter whose brand is on the side - and get credit or a discount when you shopped with it whether it was the grocery store, retailer, big box, etc.
Hmmmm...
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Permalink Reply by Stephen James on -
I think Whole Foods gives you 15 cents off per bag if you re-use.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen James on
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Absolutely-- or at least charge (tax) for them. I remember how surprised I was in Ireland then I had to pay for a bag at the grocery store. Ever since then, I've been for it. I hate it when I buy one item and the clerk puts in a bag.
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