What's up with this Acorn thing?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Stuck on September 18, 2009 at 12:08am

While watching ACORN flounder and hopefully die, one cannot wonder how many other federal funded programs are like this (not exact circumstances) and waste tax dollars they get.

This once again proves that socially funding projects through tax dollars is a disaster and the money is best left to the individual.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Emmett on September 18, 2009 at 1:37pm

ACORN is exposed as the corrupt organization that it is. Sadly, there are those who will try to spin it to look like a conspiracy.

It does make one wonder what other nefarious organizations are out there taking tax money for corrupt purposes.

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Permalink Reply by Robby Slaughter on September 18, 2009 at 3:26pm

The ACORN undercover video reveals something that most Americans don't know and are unwilling to discuss, which is that poverty is more than just being broke. Millions of people have a completely different perspective on right and wrong, on liberty and responsibility, and on privileges and obligations.

We do need a different model for funding non-profit groups like ACORN, but pulling the plug won't solve the problem. We must find a way to connect with all Americans and come to a common understanding about our duties and freedoms.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Stuck on September 18, 2009 at 3:41pm

We must find a way to connect with all Americans and come to a common understanding about our duties and freedoms.

No disrespect, but what does this mean? I see these types of phrases being written or said during debates or assessing a factual problem. I mean, what is a common understanding on tax money being wasted? What is understanding on potential tax evasion and illegal child prostitution? Your take on duties and freedoms maybe different then mine so why knowledge do you possess in the "duties and freedoms" area?

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Permalink Reply by Robby Slaughter on September 18, 2009 at 4:25pm

Of course it's a waste of taxpayer money to fund programs that encourage people to evade taxes. But there's an even bigger problem than wasting money: that some people have a completely different attitude toward government and society.

It might not seem like the personal psychology of individual citizens is all that important. After all, if people want to do something illegal, we can use the justice system to punish them through fines, incarceration, or other forms of sentencing. But the key challenge is that the mindset of poverty is widespread and common to millions of Americans. We may not have the resources to apply justice to that many people, and perhaps we should ask ourselves why millions of people do not understand the law or believe it applies to them equally.

Furthermore, the ACORN video also reveals a double standard. We can imagine a similar conversation, not about tax evasion, but about copyright law. How many of us have pirated a song or shared a piece of copyrighted software? How many of us have consumed alcohol underage or driven over the speed limit? That all people commit crimes does not justify the footage in ACORN video. Rather, it highlights the difference between consciously breaking the law and understanding the consequences versus a belief that law is arbitrary and that punishment is random and unchecked.

So to summarize, yes, our model for funding groups like ACORN is clearly broken. But we do need to decide, as a society, if we want to establish a common understanding of right and wrong---beyond enforcing wrong through sentencing. Doing so will likely require that we expand the most expensive and most comprehensive social program of all time: public education. But as with this video, we know that our model for funding schools is less than perfect as well.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Stuck on September 18, 2009 at 10:34pm

You have obvisiously never studied how ACORN top officials has used the poverty in inner city citizens as their driving force to extract money for others. TIDES Foundation is a major driving force behind this organization.

ACORN had one million extorted by its founder couple of years back and not a peep from the media. Believe what you want about the rule of law, but comparing speed limits being broken compared to a meeting setting up child prostitution by a non for profit agency getting taxpayer dollars is troubling. I am sure their voter fraud track record can be simply chalked up as a "oops, we didn't realize Mickey Mouse couldn't vote because we are poverty stricken".

Your theories on poverty are exactly why we keep fostering poverty through social programs.

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Permalink Reply by Robby Slaughter on September 18, 2009 at 11:45pm

I do not support ACORN, nor do I in general support unchecked government funding of private institutions.

I have not studied ACORN in detail, but I do not doubt that there are other incidents which are more egregious than the one shown in the video. All large organizations struggle to maintain fidelity. ACORN is surely no exception. It may well be worse than average for its size; I cannot say. But again, I do not support this group and believe, in general, that our model for funding such programs is broken.

The reason I bring up other infractions is not to state that they are the same, but to show how different populations view the rule of law. Everyone breaks the law. Some commit minor crimes and others commit felonies. The key difference for this discussion not the severity of the infraction (or the sentence), but the perspective of the individual. The poor do not see law as relevant, rational or applicable.

My theory on poverty is simple: people are poor because they are born into a culture of poverty. The worldview of the poor actually reinforces their socioeconomic status: teenage girls think becoming a mother is a status symbol, kids announce that school is uncool, and respect is earned by committing crimes and even serving time in prison. It's doubly challenging to escape the cycle of poverty. Not only must you study and work hard to become a productive, law abiding member of society, but you must survive ridicule from your peers for choices that are counter to your own culture.

Is this theory correct? If so, should we attempt to eradicate the culture of poverty? And if so, how could that change be implemented? "Grassroots" organizations like ACORN sometimes (or perhaps, often or always) use tactics to address poverty that are illegal. This is clearly unacceptable, as the ends do not justify the means. Instead, I suggest that we engage in the only social program with a proven track record: public education. No other endeavor is as precisely focused on bringing individuals to a common point of view regarding work ethic, the rule of law, and vibrancy of our democracy.

What's your theory on poverty?

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Permalink Reply by Elaine Whitesides on September 19, 2009 at 11:56pm

Robby,
I do not believe I can make quite a global, sweeping statement regarding the mindset of all persons living in poverty, but I do agree this is an issue. The belief that the law (or rules of etiquette, common courtesy, or consideration of others) does not apply to me or is only an issue if I am caught is a festering sore in society. It is evident in the number of companies' executives brought to task for behavior or decisions that are obviously based on greed, ego or simple selfishness which are destructive or harmful to many others. These demonstrate the extreme, but the seeds are planted in everyday behavior and interactions of the general citizenry as well. Add to that the absence of people taking responsibility for their actions or not being held accountable for their actions and the culture of dog-eat-dog, fear-driven political gaming ensues.

The breakdown of the ethics and moral training managed in the home and church arena has added it to the actual curriculum in schools, thus all the character-building curricula that has emerged. Schools should provide the democratic education and be a place to find examples of role models, but will never supplant the impact the family culture has on the ethical and moral development of children.

I understand the generational cycle of education and how the effects of a program are not really evident until the "student" becomes the "parent" and injects what has been learned into the family dynamic. This bolsters my belief that social groups and programs must work alongside and parallel to the education system with each applying the same paradigm and seeking the same outcome. Schools teach the civics, government and democracy and families, churches and other social groups teach the ethics, morals and manners. The goal of a strong, positive society would be the same, but strengthened because the message from the family and the schools would be the same.

The seeds of basic skills are planted and nurtured in the elementary schools and with the amount of curriculum and push-down of growing curriculum, these schools are not able to adequately prepare all students. For example, fifteen years ago, there was no technology or ethics/character curriculum. Now, these two topics could add two hours a week in the classroom but children are not in school two more hours a week. What is to be left out? What is to be glossed over? There is no time to really master a skill before moving on to the next skill, topic or idea. There is barely time to think.

Public education, like the health issue, does need a major re-vamp. But someone has to decide what the important curriculum is - both content and skills. Instead, good ideas are raised and just "added on" to the pile for schools to accomplish which leave so many students behind and languishing and schools and teachers being blamed. I am not saying every teacher and every school is doing what is best. But many are giving it their all with a canoe paddle against this tsunami.

Schools are powerful. Family is powerful. Society (and peer pressure) are powerful. Imagine what would be possible if they were all aligned to the common good. That is what I would like to see. Perhaps it would even impact the level of poverty as neighbor would help neighbor for the good of the community - locally and globally.

I am not suggesting socialism or communism, but concern and caring dictating actions. Provide assistance by teaching a skill or providing a "hand-up" instead of a "hand-out." Hard work should be rewarded. The idea that everyone can win and prosper if we work together is not that far-fetched.

Elaine

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