Which comes first? The electric car? Or consumer demand?

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Permalink Reply by benjamintraub on December 18, 2008 at 2:09am

um, as long as production is halted, no.
after existing inventory is gone, we, as a nation, can start fresh.
until then, no.

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Permalink Reply by Rhett N. Cochran on December 18, 2008 at 9:06am

This is where I get a huge kick out of the environmentalists who rail against the evils of Big Oil. They are long on complaining and very short on solutions. That's one of the reasons the electric car failed once already.

Should recharging stations be built? Yes. But can these cars take a rapid recharge or is it like recharging a regular battery, but on a larger scale meaning that it would have to recharge over a period of hours? Because if that's the case then the recharging station could take the form of a retrofitted parking garage, as opposed to a sort of electric filling station as we now know it. Frankly, it doesn't look like the Volt NEEDS a special recharging station - just plug it in in your garage.

The Volt, and all other purely electric cars, have a major drawback and that is their range. I think the future lies in Hydrogen Cell technology.

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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Williams on December 18, 2008 at 11:42am

I agree with Rhett in the sense that, unless an electric car can be built with the range of a typical gas or hybrid car, AND that has the ability for a flash recharge (rather than the 8-hour recharge that the VOLT requires), electric cars simply won't sell.

Even with government incentives, if the cars don't perform (ex. take 8 hours to charge, only get 40 miles to the charge) they won't sell.

The last 20 second of the video were very telling for me. Britta mentioned that without significant government help, each VOLT sold would lose money. The trick, she says, is getting "enough incentives and help to put the vehicle out there to get it to the point where it's competitive". That should be a big red flag for GM. It's a sign that the market isn't ready for an electric car with a 40 mile range, an 8-hour charge time and with a cost that will likely be significantly higher than traditional gas-powered cars of today.

I'll be extremely difficult for GM to build this VOLT as a car that the average Joe can afford. the VAST majority of innovations begin at extremely expensive price points and typically, only the wealthy can afford at first. However, as the market for those products build and companies continue to innovate, the costs come down and the average Joe can afford them. Take a look at HDTVs. 10 years ago, You couldn't buy a flat-screen HDTV for under $8,000. Now you can buy a 42" HD Plasma for $500. Computers: 20 years ago, a top-of-the-line computer cost several thousands of dollars. Now, you can buy a full-featured laptop for $400. Even the Hummer started out as a $100,000 car, and now you can buy an H3 for under $40,000.

The only way electric cars are going to become widely used is if there is a demand for them and if the companies can provide what consumers want. Otherwise, it's just another failed product.

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Permalink Reply by Pat Coyle on December 18, 2008 at 10:26am

Before you comment, you might want to read this piece from the CNET:

It takes a village to sell an electric car
From CNET It turns out that weaning the auto industry off gasoline isn't as simple as turning out electric cars from a factory.

Auto industry executives say they will couple their first mass-market electric cars with a big dose of community outreach, with the hope of making the new generation of vehicles more desirable and convenient to consumers.

General Motors is already coordinating with industry partners, community leaders, and utilities to ensure that the apparent strong demand for the Chevy Volt--due in November 2010--will have the infrastructure to back it up, said Tony Posawatz, vehicle line director of the Chevy Volt.

"We are looking at communities that exist that are willing to put all the pieces together," Posawatz said at the Electric Drive Transportation Association's Conference & Exposition earlier this month. "To me, the Volt is a remarkable product. But, if the other stuff--the communities, etc.--isn't there, then we run the risk of failing."

Private-public partnerships
The financial industry bailout bill (separate from the auto industry aid package that failed to pass Congress) helps clear the cost hurdle for plug-in electric cars. Depending on the size of the battery, consumers and businesses can get up to a $7,500 tax credit starting next year.

But that financial incentive isn't quite enough to rapidly spur mass adoption, say auto companies.

Municipalities or states could create incentives to install charging "pedestals" in urban neighborhoods or other public spaces. Similarly, businesses or parking lot owners could install charging ports.

With a good charging infrastructure in place, auto makers hope that mainstream consumers--rather than only adventurous bleeding-edge buyers--will have a positive experience with plug-in electric cars. Read more from CNET

All this comes as electric car maker, Think, is in financial trouble...again

What do you think? Should Indianapolis pursue this cause?
Please share your thoughts here.

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Permalink Reply by John R.(Dick) Troll on December 18, 2008 at 1:00pm

Should Indy be part of a new private public consortium? No. We are too culturally and technologically conservative and our urban footprint is not dense enough. Better to start in Boston or NYC.
As an oh by the way. The VOLT is not an all electric car. It is an internal combustion engine car with an electric motor that allows it to go 40 miles without any gasoline.
But you ask Which comes first the electric car or the demand? That's easy to answer.
Without $4.00 a gallon gasoline the electric car will never get unplugged. Without $100.00 per barrel oil wind power will exist only on the Boone Pickens ranch.
If we are serious about changing our world we will force ourselves to pay dearly for our profligate ways. Regulate markets, raise taxes, make it expensive to fill up landfills, $5.00 per gallon gasoline, shift from consumption to invesment- we all know what needs to be done- but we are looking for some painless way to make the transformation.
Oh we can grow our way out of the deficit. Oh we don't need to save we can use the equity in our house. Oh I drive a hybrid Chevy Suburban. Oh if we lower property taxes things will be better.
Oh I don't think so.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Howard on December 18, 2008 at 2:32pm

I think building infrastructure for recharging will likely be another boondogle like Ethanol fuel stations, which are a joke. The Volt can be charged at home, and run 40 miles on the charge. That covers me at least 6 days our of 7. It can run on gas if you go past the range of the electricity. So why build recharging stations until there is demand enough so that ONLY CONSUMERS OF THE CHARGE can support them. It's a 3 hour recharge, so the stations would only make sense in parking lots. Will the 'green' folks be happy when they see the coal burning plants spewing carbon into the atmostphere to generate the electricity to run these cars? Also, what is the electricity going to cost 'per mile' compared to gas cost 'per mile'? That is what matters. For all the lip-service of wanting to get off gas and oil, the cost per mile will make or break this car.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Stuck on December 18, 2008 at 11:05pm

The question is Pat, will you buy the vehicle? Will others here on SI in groups like Greener Indiana buy these vehicles to make the cause justified?

The second question is, who pays the $7500 tax rebate? The easy answer is the other taxpayers.

My last note, in order to get energy to fuel these vehicles, environmental groups will have to let infrastructure be built in order to "sustain" the charging of these batteries. Yes, that means no more lawsuits on nuclear and coal power plants and the EPA getting out of the way of productivity and replacing theoritical implementations.

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